Halaman utama »
Komunitas »
Laporan »
Laporan n°22152
Semua laporan
Laporan Cacao
#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
rejected: Pengembang berpikir bahwa itu bukan ide yang bagus atau rasio biaya / manfaatnya terlalu tinggi
22152
Tentang apa laporan ini?
Apa yang terjadi? Pilih di bawah
Saran: menurut saya, hal berikut dapat meningkatkan implementasi permainan
Apa yang terjadi? Pilih di bawah
Saran: menurut saya, hal berikut dapat meningkatkan implementasi permainan
Silakan periksa apakah sudah ada laporan tentang hal yang sama
Jika ya, silakan VOTE untuk laporan ini. Laporan dengan suara terbanyak diberikan PRIORITAS!
| # | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
|---|
Detil Deskripsi
• Mohon salin/tempel pesan error yang Anda lihat di layar, jika ada.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Mohon jelaskan apa yang ingin Anda lakukan, apa yang kemudian Anda lakukan, dan apa yang terjadi
• Apa browser yang Anda gunakan?
Mozilla v5
• Harap salin/tempel teks yang ditampilkan dalam bahasa Inggris alih-alih bahasa anda. Jika Anda memiliki screenshot bug ini (disarankan), Anda dapat menggunakan Imgur.com untuk menguploadnya dan memberi tautannya di sini.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• apakah teks ini tersedia dalam translation system? jika iya, itu bisa diartikan lebih dari 24 jam
• Apa browser yang Anda gunakan?
Mozilla v5
• Tolong jelaskan saran Anda secara tepat dan ringkas sehingga semudah mungkin untuk memahami apa yang Anda maksud.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apa browser yang Anda gunakan?
Mozilla v5
• Apa yang tampil di layar ketika Anda tidak dapat berjalan (Layar kosong? Hanya tampil sebagian antar-muka? Pesan error?)
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apa browser yang Anda gunakan?
Mozilla v5
• Bagian mana dari peraturan yang tidak diterapkan dengan tepat oleh BGA
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apakah kesalahan peraturan dapat dilihat dari ulangan permainan? Jika ya, pada langkah ke berapa?
• Apa browser yang Anda gunakan?
Mozilla v5
• Aksi permainan apa yang ingin Anda lakukan?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apa yang Anda coba lakukan untuk memunculkan aksi permainan ini?
• Apa yang terjadi ketika Anda melakukannya (pesan error, pesan status permainan, ...)?
• Apa browser yang Anda gunakan?
Mozilla v5
• Pada langkah ke berapa masalah tersebut muncul (apa petunjuk permainan saat itu)?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apa yang terjadi ketika Anda mencoba untuk melakukan aksi permainan (pesan error, pesan status permainan, ...)?
• Apa browser yang Anda gunakan?
Mozilla v5
• Mohon jelaskan masalah tampilannya. Jika Anda memiliki screenshot bug ini (disarankan), Anda dapat menggunakan Imgur.com untuk menguploadnya dan memberi tautannya di sini.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apa browser yang Anda gunakan?
Mozilla v5
• Harap salin/tempel teks yang ditampilkan dalam bahasa Inggris alih-alih bahasa anda. Jika Anda memiliki screenshot bug ini (disarankan), Anda dapat menggunakan Imgur.com untuk menguploadnya dan memberi tautannya di sini.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• apakah teks ini tersedia dalam translation system? jika iya, itu bisa diartikan lebih dari 24 jam
• Apa browser yang Anda gunakan?
Mozilla v5
• Tolong jelaskan saran Anda secara tepat dan ringkas sehingga semudah mungkin untuk memahami apa yang Anda maksud.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apa browser yang Anda gunakan?
Mozilla v5
Laporkan riwayat
5 Agu 2020 21:34 • DarkBeerMike • Saran ini belum dianalisis oleh pengembang:
Consider a checkbox to enable/disable the undo feature. I want it, but other players may feel differently.
8 Agu 2020 20:23 • Aeneas90 • Saran ini belum dianalisis oleh pengembang:
Agreed. Undo should be mandatory for all games if hidden information isnt revealed.
9 Agu 2020 9:33 • ExtraPaul • Pengembang berpikir bahwa itu bukan ide yang bagus atau rasio biaya / manfaatnya terlalu tinggi:
I understand your request.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
9 Agu 2020 16:35 • Aeneas90 • Pengembang berpikir bahwa itu bukan ide yang bagus atau rasio biaya / manfaatnya terlalu tinggi:
Rejected the most upvoted issue because "its my first time and its too hard" doesnt fill me with confidence here. Perhaps see if there's a more experienced dev that can assist.
9 Agu 2020 16:46 • ExtraPaul • Pengembang berpikir bahwa itu bukan ide yang bagus atau rasio biaya / manfaatnya terlalu tinggi:
I correct my point of view : it's not "to hard", but "too dangerous".
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
10 Agu 2020 5:57 • ExtraPaul • Pengembang berpikir bahwa itu bukan ide yang bagus atau rasio biaya / manfaatnya terlalu tinggi:
The request #22149 ask to change worker tile place on the board, then confirm.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
14 Agu 2020 0:54 • MoonGoyal • Pengembang berpikir bahwa itu bukan ide yang bagus atau rasio biaya / manfaatnya terlalu tinggi:
I agree. Many games need this feature
14 Agu 2020 13:59 • paramesis • Pengembang berpikir bahwa itu bukan ide yang bagus atau rasio biaya / manfaatnya terlalu tinggi:
An Undo action or confirm step is very frequently requested for adaptations where it doesn't exist, and I frequently see developers lean on the guidelines as an authoritative answer to every situation. Any experienced designer will tell you there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all answer. The entire intent of guidelines is to make better adaptations, and it is on the developer to decide where that line is.
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
14 Agu 2020 16:46 • ExtraPaul • Pengembang ingin informasi lebih lanjut tentang saran ini:
Hello Paramesis.
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
14 Agu 2020 17:16 • paramesis • Pengembang ingin informasi lebih lanjut tentang saran ini:
There are a few ways you could go about this, but the simplest to implement and the one I would recommend would be database undo.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
15 Agu 2020 10:04 • ExtraPaul • Pengembang setuju bahwa itu adalah ide yang bagus dan bermaksud untuk mengerjakannya:
Thank you for this explanation.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
15 Agu 2020 15:20 • paramesis • Pengembang setuju bahwa itu adalah ide yang bagus dan bermaksud untuk mengerjakannya:
The basic implementation of database undo actually only requires a few lines of code.
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
15 Agu 2020 15:21 • paramesis • Pengembang setuju bahwa itu adalah ide yang bagus dan bermaksud untuk mengerjakannya:
I forgot to add that rolling out database undo will break games in progress, so it's best to do that now while it's in Alpha.
25 Agu 2020 15:58 • iris1 • Pengembang setuju bahwa itu adalah ide yang bagus dan bermaksud untuk mengerjakannya:
Wish it was like in carcassonne 3 tiles in hand. Be able to change mind about which of the three tiles and try them out on the before you confirm. Then I guess the undo would be not necessary.
14 Sep 2020 3:39 • razzinplant • Pengembang setuju bahwa itu adalah ide yang bagus dan bermaksud untuk mengerjakannya:
An undo button when placing a tile would be nice so before you confirm placement you can choose a different tile.
24 Sep 2020 10:32 • NexusHorizon • Pengembang setuju bahwa itu adalah ide yang bagus dan bermaksud untuk mengerjakannya:
I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile
24 Sep 2020 11:49 • ExtraPaul • Pengembang setuju bahwa itu adalah ide yang bagus dan bermaksud untuk mengerjakannya:
Yes, and this iidea is here : boardgamearena.com/bug?id=24585
28 Sep 2020 21:55 • ExtraPaul • Pengembang berpikir bahwa itu bukan ide yang bagus atau rasio biaya / manfaatnya terlalu tinggi:
"I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile"
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
Tambahkan hal lain di laporan ini
Silakan tambahkan di sini segala sesuatu yang tampaknya relevan untuk mereproduksi bug ini atau memahami saran Anda:
- ID meja / nomor langkah lainnya
- Apakah F5 menyelesaikan masalah?
- Apakah masalah tersebut telah muncul beberapa kali? Setiap kali? Tidak tentu?
- Jika Anda memiliki screenshot bug ini (disarankan), Anda dapat menggunakan Imgur.com untuk menguploadnya dan memberi tautannya di sini.
Ubah status laporan ke:
bug?id=22152
